When is enough enough?

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Permalink Reply by Sharon on February 3, 2009 at 10:20am

Robin..God helps those who help themselves. Gone are the days when man was too proud to ask for handouts...Now they just expect it. It is really sad the way society has gone. But with drugs and alcohol in abundance out there and if a person has a weak area and wanting to fit in then this is the way their life becomes one of the crowd. I realize that with mental situations that is another story. Rehabitilation seems to be at a standstill around the area where I am and where you are Robin. I really get tired of these people sitting on every street corner with their tin cup in front of them asking if you can spare a dollar. Ha it comes to mind when it used to be a dime and now it has slowly went up. Even the beggar increases his handout fee..What a lark!

Well that is my take on this and am sure there are many corners for the beggar entrepenure.

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Permalink Reply by Carol Montgomery on February 3, 2009 at 12:13pm

Distressing isn't it.There is no doubt that values have changed and that we live in a society with an enormous sense of entitlement. I suspect our current economic downturn is in large part the result of our collective sense of entitlement. The notion that the rights and privileges that we enjoy as Canadian come with responsibilities seems to be sadly passe. Do the homeless give a flying @#@ #$$ about economic downturns? I doubt it. many of them have been in that situation for quite a while. Is the 'homeless' problem complex. Yes. Does it need to be resolved? Yes. Is it resolved by throwing money at.."it" or those who have responsibility for "it". I don't think so. There is no doubt that many of the folks on the streets are ill, depressed, confused and yes some 'doped' up. As a civilized society, do we ignore people who have made bad choices? I don't think so. (Just got a flashback to my teenagers or me as a teen) It seems to me that our enlightenment and our level of civility can be measured by how we treat the 'least of these'. Are there easy answers. Obviously not. Are there lots of questions? You bet. I'd be interested in hearing a few answers or questions. I've got a few (not many) ideas. This is a real problem. The question is are there real solutions.
Just a few thoughts from 'not a bleeding heart liberal'.
Carol Montgomery

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Permalink Reply by Robin Kilburn on February 3, 2009 at 1:25pm

Thank you Carol.
Of course you are right,and something has to be done. I have talked and listened to a few people and some of those were a bit younger than myself, and I heard envy in their voice, not of the homeless but of the fact that a lot of the homeless were drug addicts, one young fellow told me he only did drugs on the weekend because he had school and stuff, but he wished he could do it all the time like those "guys" I was sort of left speechless.
I just have difficulty in understanding the "collective sense of entitlement" (I love your perfect description). I believe our generation was taught that you are entitled to anything you work and save for. Did we as parents forget to pass the "you work and save for" on to our children. I can remember as a child my father saying he wanted "better" for his children than what he had. And I recall as a new parent thinking I want "better" for my child.
But some how "better" got replaced with "more", and some how every thing is now out of control, and to be honest I can not see it stopping until, we learn that better means knowledge, not money to buy more stuff to entertain our selves

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Permalink Reply by Robin Kilburn on February 3, 2009 at 10:43pm

thank you for your very compassionate and informative answer. I have been a volunteer with a young moms community service, the ideas was giving information, and small amounts of grocery vouchers to give the new moms ideas on how to better their own nutrition as well as having and keeping a healthy baby. Most of these young moms were 14-17, and lived at home and some on welfare, it is real tough when a 14 year old girl is thrown out of her family because she is pregnant and welfare doesn't assist young people under 16. talk about being between a rock and a hard spot. My part of the volunteer work was to teach these young girls how to cook and work within welfare and food bank supplies. most of them didn't even have a clue on how to use an oven. by the time I was finished each girl was able to prepare 5 basic meals from scratch, using food bank supplies and a small amount of cash or vouchers. I admit I was surprised and delighted how well they were willing to do what it took to take care of them selves and their babies.
Perhaps I am being to judgemental and not checking out resources close enough, thanks for your input

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Permalink Reply by Bitsy on February 4, 2009 at 5:47am

Estee, thank you for an excellent post. I share your sentiments, and think your compassion and understanding is admirable. I salute you!!!

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Permalink Reply by Robin Kilburn on February 4, 2009 at 11:30am

Yes we do need to attend to the mentally ill, this year a mentally ill woman died because she lit candles under a tarp covering her and her shopping cart. She was asked by the police and several friends to come into a shelter as it was very cold that night, she refused and died of burns. This is a very sad situation, because as poor as they are they are so afraid of loosing what few pitiful possessions if they go into a shelter.
I have no answers and yet it is our shame that these people continue to wander the streets and are targets for every form of abuse that exists. Do we lock them up or force medication down their throat every day, I do not have an answer and keep thinking "there but for the grace of God go I" and if I were mentally ill how would I react to all of this.

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Permalink Reply by Nellie on February 8, 2009 at 4:23am

I live in downtown Toronto and I see more and more so-called "homeless" people everyday. Two young men approached me recently and told me they had just arrived in town and where did they go for sleeping bags? Toronto has become a mecca for homeless people because they cannot survive in a small town. I know there are many agencies funded by government to help them, but this just gives them the basic neccessities such as food and a change of clothes. What is really needed is impossible to provide. Some of these people, whether due to low intelligence, lack of education, mental illness or addiction, can only be helped by intensive one on one care. If they are housed they must be taught how to shop, and then given enough money to live on. It might surprise many to realize that a lot of the people begging on the street are housed but their welfare cheque is so small they have to beg for food and drugs. I have been surprised to see how many are camped out at King and Bay Streets right underneath the lofty towers of our financial district. Unfortunately, those who could make suggestions on how to help them never walk on the street. Out of sight, out of mind. Only those of us who walk the streets of the city are really aware. Most of the benches in the downtown parks have been removed to discourage people sleeping on them, therefore, leaving no place for an ordinary citizen to rest their feet. Akin to putting spikes on overhangs to discourage the pigeons. What more can I say. These unfortunate people cause trouble by stealing, etc. and have fallen so low on society's ladder that they can only come up by being treated like a human being and this takes intensive therapy which our government will not provide.

Build a hospital just for the homeless and bring back the vagrancy law. Each person on the street should be sent to this hospital for an evaluation and then on to a treatment plan. The government can find money for other things that don't make sense. No more hostels or funding for disconnected agencies. One central hospital, with certified caregivers, doctors, nurses and social workers to get to the root of this problem.

Then maybe I can find a bench to sit on in the Eaton Centre or the park and the unfortunates will again become members of society.

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Permalink Reply by Nellie on February 8, 2009 at 12:22pm

I guess you didn't read my response. I did not suggest homelessness wasn't complicated. Every person is different. These people do not need charity they need respect from society which will foster self-respect in themselves. They have lost the skills to live alone. There is no honour among thieves so they have no real friends. We need a place to help these people from beginning to end. They should be evaluated to see what their individual requirements are and then a team should focus on how to meet these needs. If someone is making minimum wage and living in their car they should be put on a priority list for housing. Such lists do exist, but we need an institution that has all the help available in one place. Welfare rates are going to remain below the minimum wage so the answer is to find work that can support them.

I don't believe in charity but I do believe in the resilience of the human spirit.

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Permalink Reply by Robin Kilburn on February 8, 2009 at 12:24pm

I think I understand what you are saying, and in part I agree with you.but there are a lot of people out there that choose to be who they are. For those that are in circumstances that do not allow them to work, then there should be a system in place to care for them.and for the poor that are struggling and working I believe there should be a supplement to bring them up to a level where they can have a place to live., and rather than punish the poor reward them for working and doing their best to maintain a living.there are jobs out there and no people to fill them because no one can live on the small wages that are offered, as well it seems we have a lot of people out there that rent to the poor, and charge such a high price that it takes every penny to have a roof over their heads and nothing for living on.

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Permalink Reply by Robin Kilburn on February 8, 2009 at 1:10pm

Thank you, I truly appreciate you input and thoughts, they are well thought out and your personal experience.
I admit I have only one time been on welfare, I was ill and had no resources at all, Social services not only helped me but took time and helped me get the medical help that was needed, I personally hated asking for help and thought I was going to be treated with contempt, I think I was fortunate in getting a worker that saw what needed to be done and did it, with care and compassion, and not judgemental like I thought he would be

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Permalink Reply by pauline on February 11, 2009 at 9:31am

This is a very important topic, and like Sean said, an issue that's going to become increasingly critical as the economy "adjusts".
In total agreement with Estee and Sean on this one. I don't think it's well-understood just how powerless one becomes when facing homelessness for real. If we did, we'd become anti-poverty activists. Sure, there are always those who can't express enough gratitude. Does that mean we don't care for those who won't say "please" and "thank you"?
It's rich how corrupt policy makers managed to gut the support system for those who have a mental illness by calling it "progressive", "self-determination" and "rights" while slapping each other on the back for saving all those health care dollars.

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Permalink Reply by Marlene on February 11, 2009 at 10:55am

Wow, this is a very heavy discussion with no easy answers. I believe that most of this mindset started when government stuck their noses into family life. They took away the strap in schools and spankings at home which I was okay with BUT then they sent all kinds of people out there to tell the kids "You don't have to do what ANYONE tells you, just do your own thing, we'll give you welfare" This happened to our family so I know what I'm talking about. As usual the government went too far and they've created this monster and WE have let them! In an attempt to make sure everyone has rights, they have neglected the rights of children and mentally unstable people to be protected, in a safe and loving environment. Now society as a whole have given up their responsibility to insist on good social mores-remember when as a kid if the neighbour yelled at you for doing something stupid, you knew you were in for it when he told your parents! Not many people will even be bothered to help a child by standing firm and helping them learn some hard lessons. Most parents won't chastise their offspring for fear of someone else accusing them of abuse. It's a very sad commentary on our present lifestyle that's for sure. I am hoping that this world recession will have some positive changes to our collective thinking. The world DOESN'T owe you a living, you must earn it, the hard way, with effort, sweat and sacrifice. Family should again be the corner building block of each childs' life. Government must stop trying to micro-manage our lives.

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